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The Chicago Tribune's story about $40 mil in funding for a new West Side campus at Chicago State University - funding that the school didn't ask for - is a great story. Just ask Chi-Town Daily News's higher education reporter Peter Sachs: he wrote about it two months ago...and again six weeks ago.
Chi Town Daily News calls "copycat" on Tribune Watchdog story
chitowndailynews.org - 11 weeks ago - 1938 views
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Coincidentally, Michael Miner has a post today on how something similar happened to the Trib on the Cameron Todd Willingham story: http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2009/09/01/credit-where-it...
There you go. It's up to 51 votes.
What may annoy some Windy Citizen contributors is that mainstream media compensates reporters & editors for doing that which the rest do pro bono.
On the other hand, traditional media news reporters & columnists may argue that writing accurate news stories under deadline pressure justifies this distinction.
In either event, the Chicago State University report underscores the need for such investigative journalism in a city where newsroom layoffs & bankruptcy have become the norm.
In all fairness, a shared bi-line & a freelancer pay check might suffice.
top two stories from the last 365 days on windy citizen?
Chi Town Daily News calls "copycat" on Tribune Watchdog story
and
Tribune to bloggers: We will steal your news items, but we won't link to you
Well, we broke 40 votes. Is that a good thing? It is, right?
As someone who has yet to comment so far, I'd like to get my two cents in: Holy crap. I expect geometers will study this thread for years looking for evidence of fractals in the movement of the thread.
Also, I feel sheepish that I never saw the CDN original, considering that I try to read them regularly. Instead, I posted the Trib story here.
Please. Chi-Town Daily News is a freaking joke. Pretty much all they do is rehash news from other Chicago Web sites.
Nice Article.-
You got me a little confused, qstrian, but so we're clear, I'm a full-time employee who gets a paycheck every two weeks for doing what I do as a reporter. That's not the issue here.
More to the point is what ChicagoBankerMan said above: If the Trib has an investigative projects desk (which they do), why is a freelancer writing a one-off rehash story with the "Tribune Watchdog" tag? If anything, that devalues their investigative work.
Shame on all of us if our standards and expectations have dropped so much that we give the Trib a pass. By all means, there needs to be lots of investigative reporting from all outlets in the city. Based on amount of office space and number of reporters, the Trib ought to be running circles around us, but instead it's the other way around.
Former WGN-TV News Director Paul Davis, as WCIA-TV-Champaign News Director, paid me for free lance news stories. Customarily, I would be compensated even if another staff television news reporter was assigned to a news beat or was scheduled. Free market incentives.
May I suggest that Chicago news media adopt Mr. Davis' custom when it comes to Windy Citizens breaking news stories in the Chicago market. Financial pressures & inclusive W/C talent suggest that this will happen more frequently in the near future.
Ha! Props for noticing that.
I don't know if they're a joke. But I don't get all the love for them in this thread. They write a lot of boring stuff that no one wants to read. They should be doing cartwheels that the Tribune decided to validate they're reporting.
Yep, I saw that. When it rains, it pours I guess.
someone now has to buy peter a bagel or a beer, so he says.
Joiner. ;-D
Sach's stories didn't have an "OMG look what we discovered!" tone to them. He played it straight. That's one reason why they may have not caught your eye. I think the Daily News would do well by injecting a little attitude into their approach.
If this puppy hits 50 votes. I'll send a 6-pack of his choice to the newsroom.
Is calling the Trib a bunch of copycats enough attitude? Or should we amp it up more?
(Strikethrough)Haven't seen any posts on here about that from the Sun-Times yet. Has it happened to Kiyoshi, Peter, etc?(End strikethrough)
(How's that for an HTML hack?)
Haven't seen any WC posts about the Sun-Times "lifting" content on here yet. Kiyoshi, Peter, etc: Have you scooped them on a story, only to see it in print later in the S-T?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I like Chi-Town Daily News because they do original public affairs and urban reporting that often isn't being done by anyone else in town. I beg to differ that no one wants to read it. As you can see in the discussion above, their site gets decent traffic considering the fact that they don't have galleries of celebrities or cute animals or any other such gimmicks. If it's not your cup of tea, the RedEye is readily available for your enjoyment.
This story had a point of view. Clearly people wanted to talk about it. Might be worth considering applying that elsewhere.
Yes. Mike Doyle complained on the S-T following the Daily News on a story back in March or April.
Of my choice? I like the way you roll, sir.
From their current front page:
"After long fight, doctors may unionize at Stroger Hospital"
http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago_news/After_long_fight_doctors_ma...
Who's this for? Snoooooozzzzzeeee....
I could rattle off dozens more examples. It's just hard to get excited about anything they're writing for me.
And I believe my answer to him was that Fran - I believe she was the reporter - was writing of a followup presser and didn't give credit because she was unaware of the CDN report. Fran, I know, wouldn't boost a story. Had she known about the original, I'm sure she would have at least brought it up in her press conference questioning.
That said, and I can't speak for the Trib, nor do I speak officially for CST, we are far from perfect. Mishaps occur.
PBR, please.
Uh... pretty much anyone who's in a union cares about this. Or anyone who is low-income and depends on the county health system as their main way to get medical treatment.
Lucky for you that you're not in that socioeconomic group, but don't myopically dismiss the importance of providing coverage of services that help those less fortune than you.
Duly noted.
It was possible for someone to read this and think "Sachs is an @$$hole."
I think that's a good thing, it's engaging with the reader's brain in a way that a bullet proof, reported story might not. You guys seem to have a bunch of writers. That's a real asset.
Geoff, don't be so conceited. It is a legitimate thought.
I think that's what I told him, too.
You guys need to drum up 6 more votes. Better get 'a tweeting.
Don't listen to that man. I have standards. It'll be something good. Half Acre or Three Floyds maybe... or best, a growler from Flossmoor Station.
Way to let Brad off easy!
Where's my one-beer kickback?
Deal...if I can deliver in person. Heh. Heh.
If only my office was half as exciting as you guys think it is...
Then, as Geoff pointed out, you're not the intended audience. Not everything in the Tribune or the Sun-Times has an audience either. It's just less noticeable, because they're covering everything (or trying to anyway) while the Chi-Town folks are working a niche. The thing about a niche is just that: it's a niche. So if it's not your niche, you're not interested in it. That's no reason to dump on it though. I'm not particularly interested in soccer for instance, but I wouldn't begrudge a soccer website's existence.
Journalism is a big tent and caters to many levels and topics of interest. I, for one, am glad to have CDN and other entities filling in gaps missed elsewhere. Niche reporting is a valuable resource for the community - and sometimes grows beyond the intended readership.
Competition in journalism should drive us all to be better watchdogs - no buzz term intended - but complimentary coverage from multiple sources is also a greater benefit to the city as a whole.
Amen, Craig.
I agree 100%. That's why the Trib's CSU story disappoints me so much. There is more to that story that hasn't been reported on yet, and the Trib could have used that space to probe some of the underlying questions. That would have pushed me to work harder on my beat, too. And that, as you say, makes for better reporting all around.
Hey, I'm not part of the newsroom. Can I have a wine instead?
This discussion thread suggests that:
1) We value enterprise, investigative journalism.
2) We prefer that our work be recognized.
3) Many of us have the formal training & education to report & write web log blogs whcih are accurate, fair, timely & of topical interest to Windy Citizens.
Who would like to join me on the investigative reporting desk?
No. Name calling doesn't accomplish anything. We need to preserve the existing print & broadcast journalism in Chicago while enhancing it with contemporary writing which appeals to a broader audience.
I've been internally critical of the "new" look at CTDN. As a citizen journalist, the stuff gets hidden. Sachs piece wasn't noticed because there is a serious lack of graphics to tell stories. Part of that is the use of a photo site, Flikr, that imposes a creative commons agreement on photogs. I know that the photogs don't like it, have complained and been told CTDN doesn't care.
When I look at other sites in other cities, I like to see the graphics they use to enhance stories. It isn't present at the CTDN and it should be.
This is all hidden from readers because you don't see the soft issues, by which I mean the software used for CJ. Also, Geoff, bless his soul, has largely concentrated on hiring writers. I don't believe there is a single photog on the payroll. It is a real issue.
More about it here: http://www.chitowndailynews.org/blogs/Media_Insider/Sachs_story_could_ha...
Yeah. Not sure how to interpret that...
That's easy. Lots of journos, media hacks and critics hang around these parts.
As a policy, we credit when credit is due. That is not to say we always know, on stories we may have missed originally, that something has been reported elsewhere.
Flaks contact our reporters on topics that may have been given to/dug up by other reporters elsewhere. Or we may hold on to stories that get reported first elsewhere for other reasons. We don't generally troll to steal other people's work, however.
Examples?
we're breaking stories no one else is covering every day. why the beef!?
Kudos to Mr. Sachs for calling out the Tribune on this one. Now the question is whether they'll trot out @ColonelTribune to dance on Twitter and make people feel better, or if they'll actually acknowledge that *gasp* they're not the only show in town.
Everyone in this thread is missing the point. He's not trying to get credit per se. He's just pointing out that the Tribune's "watchdog" unit looks less than impressive if they're idea of an investigation is to patch together stuff someone else already covered.
I think he would have been better served by just calling the story weak, rather than a copycat.
It's all well and good to call the Tribune's Watchdog group a bunch of copycats. Do you think they care?
The real question is why the ChiTown Daily News hasn't cut a deal with the Tribune to have them run their stories in the paper. The Trib's web site reaches hundreds of thousands of people each day. The ChiTown Daily news reaches hundreds of people each day. It would seem sensible to work out a deal where Daily News stories are able to get more exposure in return at a price that makes sense.
Why would the Tribune make a deal like that when they can just copy the story a few months later and pass it off as original investigative stuff?
I think you just answered your own question.
Morning gents.
I get that Sachs might be ticked off about this. I hope he e-mails the links to someone at the Trib and good humoredly points out that he scooped them months ago. Maybe they'll offer him a job.
I bet they'd love that at the Daily News.
What's the alternative? Whine about it publicly? I thought his post linked here was well-done and not too over the top, but to say much more would be gauche. He didn't get ripped off, he just got out done by a company with much greater resources than his own.
They didn't copy it so much as regurgitate it.
I hear the Trib is really itching to hire new reporting talent these days.
This wouldn't be the first time the Tribune's ripped off a higher education story. Back in 2006, they ripped me off!
http://www.poynter.org/forum/view_post.asp?id=11702
Here's my original story:
http://www.dailyillini.com/news/2006/08/01/student-arrested-after-police...
Two days later, the Tribune's higher education reporter came out with this story (I'm linking to a blog here that excerpted a lot of the article, because the Tribune's own archives/search doesn't turn up anything, stupid paywall):
http://www.mycrimespace.com/2006/08/03/booked-by-facebook/
While the Tribune's digital team seems to be pretty good about crediting people with scoops, the print side has a history of just ripping off a story and not admitting they've been scooped on it. After I wrote that letter to Romenesko, I received a few other e-mails from other college journalists who were ripped off, too.
Welcome to the club, Peter Sachs!
Part of being a professional journalist is getting used to the fact that other organizations will swipe your scoops and call it their own. It happens regularly enough that most of the time I could care less. This one stuck out not only because of how flagrant it was, but because of how the Tribune's story had no news in it because it was reporting on something that happened weeks ago without even attempting to "move the story forward."
Something else worth noting: That story was written by a freelancer (note the "Special to the Tribune" line under the byline). That is a sad commentary on the state of the Trib's newsroom resources when none of their reporters, let alone their higher education reporter, could cover that story.
@HydeParkAdmiral: Of course they don't care about my namecalling. The point of it (and it was effective, judging by this thread), was to point out to their readers what the Tribune did.
@kiyoshimartinez: You raise a great point. As the underfunded, less widely read underdogs here, we'd love to see news organizations give credit where credit is due, even if that means acknowledging your competition beat you to a story. In fairness, the Trib and Sun-Times have done it before, by including a link or a line somewhere in the story that reads, "the Chi-Town Daily News first reported...". As far as I'm concerned, that should be a newsroom best practice, just like checking the spellings of names. Why? So that the reader can go to the original source if they so desire.
Isn't their watchdog unit supposed to be super special? Why are they outsourcing stories for it? ouch.
@HydeParkAdmiral: We reach thousands a day, FYI.
If the Trib were interested in the kind of substantive local coverage we provide, they would have taken the millions they spent on programmers and web designers to create the HuffPo knockoff that is ChicagoNow and ... paid reporters to cover local news.
I think it's clear their priorities lie elsewhere, so it's tough to see them paying us for local coverage.
Hey Geoff,
I appreciate the correction about your numbers. But I was going off of what I saw on Quantcast.com
Which shows about 1100-1300 visitors on your best days in the last month and 6-800 per day on most week days. These numbers are wrong?
Unless you add Quantcast's code to your site, their statistics are pretty iffy. They undercount the WC's traffic and we're running their code! So it's quitely likely they're severely undercounting the Daily New's.
The Daily News averages about 65k unique visitors/month. Quantcast, alexa, all of them seriously underestimate traffic for sites that aren't huge.
Cool. I stand corrected (though 2,000/day = 20 "hundreds").
or 2 'thousands' :)
or .02 millions. I think that's our new marketing line!
Genius! I think you guys are on to something.
In all seriousness though. Keep on doing good stuff. And really, you should try to cut a deal with someone to syndicate your stories. Even if it's only at $100/reprint, that's some real money you can bring in to help cover costs.
What about reaching out to the Daily Herald? They run Cook County stuff.
Not a bad idea. We've launched similar discussions in the past, though they haven't gone anywhere.
Exactly. Short of sharing one's internal analytics publicly, there's not much you can do to give an accurate, flattering depiction of a medium-sized site's traffic.
ChicagoNow is a knockoff of HuffPo, seriously? Using your own standards isn't CDN just a knock off of the investigative reporting sections the newspapers then?
As a blogger at ChicagoNow who creates original content & sees that many of my fellow bloggers there do the same I take offensive with your labeling of the network as a "knockoff" of HuffPo. As has been pointed out in many places, HuffPo is really just the net's largest scraper, who doesn't even pay the bloggers who do create original content for Arianna.
For you to put the work that bloggers do there on a daily basis on the same level as what HuffPo does is insulting. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt but there was no need for you to drag ChicagoNow and the bloggers there into this.
The Tribune itself compares ChicagoNow to the Huffington Post every time it talks about it.
Watch this promo video they posted to the web months ago.
http://multimedia.tribune.com/CN/ChicagoNow.html
Yes, exactly.
And no, we're not a knock off of the investigative reporting sections of newspapers, because:
* We operate a nonprofit, web-only business model
* We operate a unique citizen journalism program that is one of the country's largest
* We cover dozens of stories every week that newspapers don't. Or don't cover until two months later, anyway.
Burn.
So you invented investigative reporting then? If not, then you're just a "knockoff" of investigative reporting of newspapers.
Goose meet gander.
I've seen that video, my blog on CN makes a cameo towards the end. I don't recall the part of the video where it describes ChicagoNow as a "knockoff" of the HuffPo.
I agree wholeheartedly that it should be a hard newsroom rule to credit the originators of a report. I don't see the harm in doing that. I doubt a majority of readers would suddenly, upon seeing such an attribution, decide that the publication where they're now reading the story is totally worthless. If that were true, no one would ever read HuffPo, Chicagoist, Windy Citizen, etc :-)
As for this being a sad commentary on the Trib's newsroom resources, I'm afraid this is just another example in what is surely a VERY long list. Maybe the problem is that the Trib, from what I understand, makes most of their money in the suburbs. And by "suburbs" I of course mean the affluent ones.
Looks like this could be the first WC story to break 40 votes. Go team.
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